Deconstructing the Barbie Phenomenon: Beyond Pink and Glitter

Are you ready to decode Barbie's technicolor world? Get set for a delightful whirlwind tour through the Barbie movie's intriguing narrative, potent themes, and unforgettable characters. We, your hosts, don our analytical hats to guide you through the hidden messages, cultural references, and Easter eggs scattered in the film. Brace yourselves for a nostalgia trip as we share our personal experiences and the impact Barbie's left on our childhood.

But we don't stop there; we plunge into the deeper and murkier waters surrounding this cinematic phenomenon. The controversies and discussions that the Barbie movie has ignited, the societal norms it challenges, and the stereotypes it smashes - all come under our scanner. We also scrutinize Mattel's involvement with the film and its implications, as well as the need for tangible action against passive discourse.

Finally, we rekindle our memories of Barbie, the conversations that shaped our perception of her, and the effect she's had on us over the years. We probe into the film's portrayal of diverse cultures, its subtle adult humor, and question its suitability for young audiences. To top it all, we relive our experiences with Barbie's dream boat, car, and other accessories. Whether you're a Barbie enthusiast or just interested in the cultural implications of this iconic doll, this episode is a treasure trove of riveting discussions and debates. So grab your Barbie and join us on this enlightening and entertaining journey into Barbie's world - we saved a seat for you.

Grab a warm drink and join us- we saved a seat for you. Don't forget to stay updated with Spill the TEA by following us on Facebook at Women Gathering and Growing with TEA or on Instagram at Grow with TEA.

Transcript

Tracy: 0:00

You're the thief digger, mmm digger, digger.

Kerri: 0:05

Alright, friends, welcome back to Spill the Tea. Today we are going to be talking about the Barbie movie, which some of us saw and some of us did not, so I'm throwing it over to who did not, which is Mary, and she's going to get us started.

Mary: 0:25

Because I haven't seen it and I haven't even seen commercials or the trailer of it. I'm wondering what was the overall storyline of the Barbie movie, mary.

Tracy: 0:41

I have to say when my daughter called and said that she was going to see Barbie on opening night, I was like, oh, that's cute, you and your friends, oh, that's good. And then when she called me afterwards and she's like I have to take you back to see this movie, it was that good and I was like what? It's a kids movie. And then we got a request from one of our listeners that we watched the movie and do a podcast on it. So then I was really intrigued because in my mind I thought, okay, this is a kids movie, like, like a child's movie. Why? Why do they want us to go see this?

Tracy: 1:16

It is probably why maybe I have seen commercials, but it was not of interest to me you probably just dismissed it, other than there was a lot of pink in them.

Mary: 1:26

Yes, I didn't really care for the technicolor.

Tracy: 1:30

For the color I did send Carrie. Yeah, it was Barbie. How you make Barbie pink. Yeah, so the overall, the high level, what it was about? You would think it was about Barbie, but it was really a Mattel sponsored commentary on the patriarchy, feminism and what it is to be a woman and a girl.

Kerri: 1:53

First of all, I think I'm the only one that didn't like the movie. First of all, I didn't like like the whole I don't know the production of it, I guess like it's just not my jam. So that was kind of hard for me to follow because I was just so annoying by the all. But in the end I felt like the message was that women just need to go find their vaginas. I felt like the message was and I was just like I just wasted two hours of my life.

Tracy: 2:34

I didn't get that at all though.

Kerri: 2:36

I mean spoiler alerts.

Tracy: 2:38

There are spoiler alerts in this podcast, so, like heads up, we are going to talk about the whole thing.

Mary: 2:45

So is that the next message on a saucer or a teacup, go find your vagina.

Tracy: 2:54

I mean, you're going to both just spoil it for you. It ends with her going to the gynecologist because she can, because she turns human. So the whole movie is about stereotypical Barbie. Okay, she's the main character. Jodi, what did you think?

Jodie: 3:11

I liked it. I liked America's speech. It shook me up. I kept thinking, yeah, yeah, why is that when she's going on and on about? And I almost I wanted to record it on my phone just so I'd have the speech.

Jodie: 3:28

But you've got to be thin, but not too thin. And you can't say you want to be thin. You have to say you want to be healthy and you have to be pretty, but not too pretty, because you don't want to be a threat to other women and you don't want to attract the wrong kind of man. And you have to have money, but not too much money. You have to have children that you're proud of, but you're not allowed to brag about them. And she just went on and on and everything that she said she just hit the nail on the head is like being a woman is hard. There's a delicate balance of you know you can't be too quiet and you can't be too loud and you can't be too this or people will think that, but then you can't be too much the other way. And it was just, it was beautifully wrapped up the way she did it. I thought you liked that part, right, carrie?

Kerri: 4:08

Yeah, I didn't know. I you know, like that message was fine, but to me it was just like we know this. I didn't need a Barbie movie to tell me that All the other like weird crap that was in the movie was just like okay, okay, that was good.

Jodie: 4:32

Ken Ken singing and dancing. I could have done without. I could have done without that part that was cheesy. Do you like?

Tracy: 4:38

musicals though, because it was kind of a cheeky. I do like the musicals.

Kerri: 4:44

I watched La La Land and I loved that.

Tracy: 4:49

So like I get why they did it, where the Ken's are all dressed in the black suits and they're doing the like weird dance. That's part of singing in the rain, so it was kind of like a throwback to that. But if you didn't know that, like you wouldn't know that's what they were doing, yeah. I did and it was just because of that odd like that's a weird song and a weird dancing.

Jodie: 5:13

But there were so many of those things. Yeah, there were so many of those things in there.

Tracy: 5:18

Like I feel like the director is such a highly intelligent human being that she tied so many messages into it and made so many references. Like I just sent Aaron an article where there was like 35 Easter eggs in this movie and they were throwbacks to other things. Like she opened it up and like a science fiction world, like a dystopian society, and she's talking about how all the little girls only had baby dolls until Barbie. All the little girls start like breaking the baby dolls and it's like this giant little girl saying no, no to the baby dolls. I can be Barbie, because stereotypical Barbie was very unrealistic.

Kerri: 6:00

Yeah, I don't know. I guess maybe even that's part of what threw me off because, honestly, last night I reached out to my childhood BFF and was like, because I'm still like my friends liked this movie and I really it just rubbed me the wrong way, like I just did not like it at all and I was like did we play with Barbie? Suppressed Barbie, like my, something going on. I said I need to know, did we play with Barbies? And she said no, we didn't.

Kerri: 6:38

She said I played with Barbies with my older sister, but you and I only ever played pretend. We made up our own stories.

Tracy: 6:47

So Carrie baby did you have?

Kerri: 6:48

Barbies I did have. I do remember having Barbies. But then I was thinking, you know, I guess you know that was part of the message, maybe in the movie too. I just never identified with Barbie or wanted to in any way.

Tracy: 7:02

Yeah, so one of those articles I sent to you guys, america Freire said that she never played with Barbie because because when she was younger there was a Barbie that looked like her, so why would she play with her? So if there was a Barbie that you weren't, you weren't resonating with Barbie, then this would be a hard thing to swallow. But if you are a girl that did have Barbies, this kind of for me was like okay, so yeah, I get that here. They didn't play with them. It would be like I don't know. It would be like if this was WWE action figure movie, I probably wouldn't get it.

Kerri: 7:37

Yeah, just felt like a, I don't know. It didn't feel like a. Oh, it felt like duh.

Mary: 7:49

You are woke, carrie, but imagine the people that haven't taken deep dives into patriarchy and feminism that maybe it was a eye opener for them.

Kerri: 8:01

I guess. And then I was. I was thinking last night and I know I think I shared this on here before and something we were talking about Like I grew up, I was always a big girl and I've always, you know, my weights fluctuated up and down and whatever, but my mom always told me that her dad always said that she was a big, strong girl and so was I, and I never saw anything wrong with that. Like you're right, I am, I'm big and strong, and so I think that's kind of the mindset I had younger, and so maybe Barbie didn't resonate with me because she wasn't big and strong. I don't know.

Tracy: 8:40

I have to just say kudos to Sue Potter for instilling that you, at such a young age, kudos, kudos, kudos. Bow down to her, because that is such a beautiful gift that she gave you so young Carrie. I mean my goodness.

Tracy: 8:56

Yeah, I don't know, Just the body image thing in and of itself, Because that was the other thing when I was like I originally was like I'm not going to watch this because Margot Robbie is looks like Barbie, like the stereotypical Barbie, and I feel like maybe has caused many a young girl to have a false sense of what it is to be a grown woman with a grown woman's body and when they supersize her right, based on the dimension she is, she wouldn't even menstruate, she would be so unhealthy.

Tracy: 9:30

So there were all these things in my head that like why, do I want to go watch this movie, but then I just loved it, but also knowing very well Mattel sponsored it. And then afterwards, just listening to the director and Chris Greta and Margot, who is the star the number of fights and issues they had to have because there were so many things they put in this movie. And I listened to an interview with Margot this morning where she had said we didn't have like three things that could concern the sponsors. We had so many things that could concern the sponsors that we overwhelmed them to the point where it was. We'll listen to you and we'll make sure that you've expressed your feelings, but we're going to keep moving forward and I just have to say this is probably the only time in history that that could have happened. It wouldn't have happened 10 years ago or 15 years ago, where a director and a woman's star would be able to go in and say yeah, but and then we're going to, even if we have to do it dressed like Barbie.

Kerri: 10:38

I did go in then and look at the producers and to me it would have had if I would have gone in and saw that it was like all female lead. Yeah, it wasn't. So I don't know, and you're right Like I, that too, like they kept. You know, mattel was mentioned over and over and over and over and over and now Barbie stuff is exploding again. So who's profiting and what are they profiting on?

Tracy: 11:12

And I think you have to go into the movie knowing that Mattel did this to make money. They did this to make money. What I love about it is the star and the director took an opportunity that Mattel would have used to make money regardless and added their voice to it. Like when you hear Kate McKinnon talk about her character and her voice, I mean, I don't know anybody that was a Barbie player that didn't have a Barbie, that looked like Kate McKinnon, that they didn't try to cut their hair drawn, they permanently had an arm or a leg that wouldn't go back and she did such a great role with that.

Tracy: 11:50

But then I heard another woman on Instagram who's like, okay, when I saw the movie, I saw stereotypical Barbie and I saw Kate McKinnon and I saw the right and the left and she didn't feel like there was much in the middle, like you can be weird and woke or you can be caught in this illusion. So I think that maybe she, what she was seeing, was the artwork that makes you talk about it and say, okay, well, we're not, we're not either or we're. There's a pendulum here.

Kerri: 12:22

I feel like America was kind of the middle ground there she was.

Mary: 12:27

And what was her character? What was the character she was?

Kerri: 12:31

She was over from Barbie land to real world.

Tracy: 12:37

Okay, so that starts out Mary and Barbie land and it's just like you didn't picture. It had like the Barbie dream houses and I had the horses we had when we were little and you know the pink car and that was like life style. So if you played with Barbie you saw all the Barbie stuff. Like they even had the midge doll that Aaron had, that you could take the belly off and there was a baby inside. Like they had skipper it had, Aaron had a dog that pooped, Kate McKinnon had that dog. It was so fun If you were, if you were somebody that had Barbies or loved Barbie, it had all those Barbies.

Kerri: 13:10

What happens is stereotypical Barbie starts fantasizing about death and she starts realizing that I'm laughing my ass off, because I remember the movie they showed some Barbie where her boobs grew.

Tracy: 13:24

Yes, that was the one in the 70s. I had to look that up as like there's no way. But yeah, there was a Barbie in the 70s who you moved her arms.

Mary: 13:34

They did yeah.

Kerri: 13:38

And how did you? How did they grow? Did you like? Push your belly and her boobs grew. Oh, I think you moved your arms like your pumps. Of course you pump them in her boobs grew.

Mary: 13:50

Well, better than massaging them. Oh my gosh. That's why you went to get a vagina.

Tracy: 13:58

Yeah, there was one Barbie married that I was like, oh, that wasn't a real thing. But all those Barbies were real things, even the sugar daddy. And so I guess sugar daddy was this old old Kendall that had a little bee who's the name of the puppy was sugar and they named the doll sugar daddy. So I thought, okay, that must have been in the 60s or 70s 2000s 2000.

Jodie: 14:27

Oh, my goodness.

Tracy: 14:29

I was blown away. I'm like how did they get by somebody? Sugar daddy Barbie.

Kerri: 14:37

Because they liked it yes. They knew what they were doing and they still do, because now we're having this stupid conversation. Things that they did.

Tracy: 14:50

But here's the thing we're not the only ones having this kind. We've been having a conversation about the patriarchy, we've been having a conversation about evolving, and we have women, like-minded women, that were just able to take the system and adjust it so that now everybody and anybody is talking about it. So I know that Mattel is profiting off it, which fucking sucks, but there are so many more people that are slowly waking up to this message. I also love that it's in a Hispanic woman's voice.

Kerri: 15:24

This is my question from it. This is really how I felt when I got done. Are people still just going to be bitching about what's happened to us or are they going to be doing things to make a difference? Because if we're just going to sit around and bitch about it, then it was a waste of time. You know what I mean? Like what has transpired, and I felt like that's all it was. It was getting people talking about yes, it's getting people talking about the inequities that have transpired, but are we just going to stay there? There was no call to action Just to find your vagina. I don't know, I just didn't like it. I just I can't get behind it. I'm sorry.

Mary: 16:08

You don't have to get behind it. Can you go back to? America's role was.

Tracy: 16:13

Oh yeah, oh, I'm sorry, I totally took off down a rabbit hole. So America All right. So it opens with that sci-fi scene and like Helen Mirren is over talking it and you kind of think, okay, this is going to be a weird sci-fi movie. And then it goes right into Barbie Land, like Mattel beautiful and like a kid's movie that you're going to see, and the main character is stereotypical Barbie, who is gorgeous, and she wakes up and everything's perfect, everything pops out of the toaster and all the things. But she starts ruminating on death and then she says it to one of her friends and then she laughs when her friends are because the music and everything stops when she says something horrible like that and she's like, wait, wait, wait. I meant I was going to dance to death. And then, you know, things went back to like pretend. But then the next day you know how Barbie's feet are always elevated in an arch, tippy toes.

Tracy: 17:05

High heels. Yeah, her feet went flat and then her toast was burnt and then all these other things and she's having bad thoughts. So they tell her that she should go talk to the weird Barbie which is Kate McKinnon and Kate gives her a choice Kind of this was another Easter egg to the Matrix. She gives her the choice of a high heel, pink high heel, or a Birkenstock, and the high heel would keep her reality or the Birkenstock would take her to the real world. She really tries hard to keep the really pretty shoe, but Kate McKinnon forces her to take the Birkenstock, obviously, otherwise the movie would have stopped.

Tracy: 17:46

And she has to go through all of these scenes, which was a commercial for Barbie, things like the boat in the car, but that took her to the real world in Los Angeles where she was going to look for the person who was playing with her, the little girl. So she runs into this little girl and her four friends who are actually named after the Bratt styles and look like the Bratt styles, but they're real people and they kind of give her sass and then what she finds out is that the mom of that one girl was the one who was actually playing with her and coming up with some like really funny types of Barbies, like I don't know what were the other ones, like obsessed with death or maybe I don't remember. They were funny ones though. Yeah, they were weird.

Jodie: 18:36

The dark side of things, the dark side.

Tracy: 18:38

And that's what was happening to this stereotypical Barbie In the meantime. Ken this was hilarious. Ken doesn't even have a real job. He's beach Ken, and he's not even a lifeguard His job is beach.

Kerri: 18:53

Like he's an accessory. He's only happy when he's gazing into Barbie's eyes.

Tracy: 18:58

Yes, he's an accessory, so he's made to feel like he's an accessory. So when he comes out into the real world and he sees that the real world is run by this patriarchal system, he sneaks back to Barbie Landwell, barbie's trying to fix it up and introduces patriarchy to Barbie Land.

Jodie: 19:16

Yes, Interesting twist.

Tracy: 19:19

Yes, ken Land. Yes, he makes Ken Land. It's a funny commentary. I think that it's just, it's never been done before Ken Land he's not a real big fan of the thing.

Jodie: 19:37

I don't know if he's a real big fan of the thing, ken Land.

Mary: 19:42

Ken Land, ken Land, ken Land, ken Land, ken Land Ken.

Jodie: 19:45

Land, ken Land.

Mary: 19:45

Ken Land what?

Jodie: 19:46

was it? What did he call it? The Casa something dojo oh yeah, like forwards.

Tracy: 19:52

I mean how?

Jodie: 19:52

Who is a merit Like? What is her character? So you think that, like Tracy said you, she goes and finds the little girl that's been playing with her. Yeah, yeah, I see she's the mom of a queen girl who wants nothing to do with her. You know, the mom wants to be motherly and hug her daughter and tell her I love her, and the little girl just rolls her eyes and walks away. And you know that's what resonated with me, because I have a teenage daughter who has the same thing. One of the parts that I loved was when Margo was crying. Barbie was crying and she said I just don't feel beautiful and the voice cuts in and says note to casting you may not want to have Margo Robbie in this role. It doesn't really get the point across because the girl is freaking beautiful. It doesn't matter if she's wearing makeup or not, or if she's crying or whatever, she's just gorgeous. So you really don't get the idea that, oh yeah, she looks really ugly because she couldn't if she tried. Yeah.

Tracy: 20:53

Yeah, and then that kind of leads into America's really heartfelt speech. Ken's house is called Mojo Dojo Casa House, which they're all worth for a house. Yeah, very deep. Yeah, he's real deep. The different Ken's were really funny, but there was one that was Alan and in the 60s he was actually a doll and then they brought him back and he was actually Midge's father and then they got rid of him because nobody liked the pregnant Midge doll except Alan. She loved it.

Kerri: 21:31

Alan, did I catch that Alan was also part of Barbie Land, like he was a Barbie.

Tracy: 21:38

He was.

Jodie: 21:39

I don't remember.

Kerri: 21:40

Alan, he hung out with the Barbies. He was a Barbie.

Tracy: 21:44

Yeah, he originally was. I think that was the undertone. He wore a rainbow shirt. Yeah, no, I definitely think that was portrayed as a gay man.

Jodie: 21:55

So they were all Barbie Barbie would say hello. Barbie to another Barbie and she'd say, hello Barbie. And they had, like, all of the groups represented. They had Hispanic Barbie and Black Barbie and they even had someone who was overweight, who was also a Barbie, which I don't remember seeing an overweight Barbie growing up, but is that something? That they do now.

Tracy: 22:19

I don't know. I haven't bought a Barbie in a long time.

Jodie: 22:22

I hope that there's more representation. Yeah, they had, like they were really trying to represent so many different groups and, of course, barbie could have any career. It was Dr Barbie and astronaut Barbie and like the idea of women can be anything they want, they don't have to be put in a box and just be mom, be one thing, just be mom. They could be anything Mom and or whatever.

Tracy: 22:48

And then Barbie goes back to Mattel and they try putting her back in the box and she remembers what it smells like there, she remembers the comfort of it, but then it's like, wait, but I don't, I don't want that. I don't think it was a young children's movie, though, like a friend of mine at work asked me if she should take her seven year old and I said no, no, it's not for a seven year old. I mean she's like the pink and that they're talking about Barbie, but it's. It's not like, you know, a DreamWorks movie where there's some adult humor mixed in, you know body humor and it's definitely tween and up.

Kerri: 23:19

It was a lot of undertone jabs, I guess, at the way things are happen. Continue to be, should be, I don't know, but you really have to. I think you'd have to be older to understand.

Tracy: 23:34

It would be really hard to explain if you were older.

Kerri: 23:36

Yeah.

Jodie: 23:38

I didn't find anything offensive in the movie. I saw some people on Facebook tracking it because it wasn't like a G rated whatever, I don't know. I was surprised that people were trashing it because there was anything, not because they didn't like it, but just because they thought it was inappropriate.

Kerri: 23:58

No, I didn't think it was inappropriate, I just didn't like it. I just didn't like the movie itself, and I do think there were good things in it. I don't think there were. You know, there was nothing that I was like, oh my God, this is horrible, I can't even watch this. There was never a moment like that. There was some like this is not, I can't believe I am watching this. But you know, overall I don't think it was a, the message was horrible. I just well, I kind of do, I did.

Tracy: 24:28

I don't know, was it just the end that you were like what the hell, why did you end it like that?

Kerri: 24:33

I just felt like right, like I felt like the bright spots were America's little speech. In there she kind of laid it out for the way it's been for women, which was great, but that was not news to me and then it felt like okay, so this is true, so let's do something about it. And what we did about it is we went and got a vagina.

Tracy: 24:58

It was just like oh, that's brand new. You probably should make sure it's normal.

Kerri: 25:03

Like I don't know, I just it all fell flat on. I was just when it was over. I was like I did think she was going to come back.

Tracy: 25:11

I thought she was going to come back and be the president of Mattel. They left that hanging and left Will Ferrell as the president. So I was kind of like wait a minute. I thought she was going to go back and change the boardroom a little bit.

Kerri: 25:20

Yeah, he had Birkin's band on in the end too, which I was just like no.

Tracy: 25:28

Take them off. You're not allowed to wear those. I did look it up. It's PG 13. I think that's a fair rating for it, just because of consent.

Jodie: 25:38

It does say PG 13. First suggestive references in brief language. We're seeing on the beach where Gosling, where Ken says I would beat you off. Oh yeah, yeah, because they have a beach shop.

Mary: 25:52

Yeah, so if she found her vagina at the end, did he go and get a penis?

Tracy: 26:00

She stayed in Kent. He stayed in Barbie land. Oh, okay, yeah, he stayed in Barbie land to find himself. She talked him into doing some self work and finding himself outside of the relationship with her and him, because stereotypical Barbie spoiler alert is not in love with Ken. When he had a hard time swallowing that pill, he didn't know who he was without her.

Mary: 26:28

There was sugar daddy, and then there was eye candy, eye candy, ken. So, carrie, you've shared your relationship that you've had with Barbie from a young age. How about the others? Do you remember, tracy and Jody, your relationship with Barbie as a child?

Jodie: 26:49

I do. I had a. Oh my goodness, I had the Barbie dream boat. Oh, you had the boat, I had the boat. You had accessories. I didn't get the car, but I did have the boat and I also had. There was a Barbie called Jody the Jody doll. It was Jody's country store. Did you have that?

Jodie: 27:08

No, so I had she had long red hair down to her feet and she had this country store with apples and like things that, all kinds of stuff that you'd buy in the store pots and pans, and so, yeah, I had the Jody doll and Joe, of course you would have that.

Mary: 27:28

Of course, because it's your namesake.

Kerri: 27:32

Yes, I have to share. I'm thinking I don't even remember what my Barbies, that they had names, if I had them.

Jodie: 27:39

I don't think here, but I hear.

Kerri: 27:41

I do remember actually having a skipper and she had a flat yeah.

Tracy: 27:48

I did too. Yeah, skipper's feet were flat. Yeah, I had her too.

Kerri: 27:54

Maybe that's why I remember her. She seemed the most realistic to me, I don't know she did have flat feet I had.

Tracy: 28:03

I obviously had Barbies, because I'm talking like I'm nostalgic about the movie on top of everything else, but we had a bin of Barbies. My mom went through a phase where she made me a bunch of Barbie clothes, which was fun. So she sewed them with the little snaps and I had the horse and then I had like a version from Hills. That wasn't the Mattel's car, was not the pink one, it was like a red one. They didn't quite fit in there but I still loved it and I remember setting up while guiding light was playing and I would act out my own soap operas with them.

Tracy: 28:39

And then I read that one commentary in the New York the New York, that wasn't the New York Times, that was the New Yorker and she talks about in that article and we'll share that this article. It was really, really well read. But she really talks about how we would put Barbie through the trials and tribulations and kind of like we were always putting her through hell. And I really, really felt like I was doing that with my Barbies, like I was taking these horrible things that I'm hearing on the TV and maybe even in my own life and I was acting them out with my Barbies. Like the Barbie was always in danger and always in, so my Kendall was always saving them.

Mary: 29:25

So I had to look up to see if I really had the Barbie townhouse, because I thought maybe I had a fake one, like a generic one.

Tracy: 29:37

Like my car.

Mary: 29:39

So I had the Barbie townhouse and Barbies but, like Carrie said, I don't remember. I think I just had generic Barbie, like plain old blonde hair Barbie and it's funny, yeah, typical, but not whatever the spin offs are. And I do remember for a birthday party someone had, one of the gifts I got was a crocheted, some sort of crocheted dress. So when you mentioned that your mom made the clothes which seems really tedious, but I remember getting a crocheted. It was blue with white trim and that, just that was deep down in my memory. But so people were doing that and I don't remember how I played with Barbie and so I'm also thinking. I don't necessarily remember feeling like comparing myself or others to Barbie, but it was probably more of a undertone.

Tracy: 30:48

Like a subliminal thing.

Mary: 30:49

Subliminal?

Kerri: 30:50

yeah, I think that's where I had a problem with the movie, because I think that there is some assumption and I'm not going to say that there isn't but that, like all little girls compared themselves to Barbie. Like no, they didn't. You're not that great, mattel. Sorry, some of us didn't love Barbie and we didn't play with Barbie, like that's part of it, that I was just like, hmm, I just, I don't know, just didn't resonate with me.

Mary: 31:21

Maybe we were more inclined to compare ourselves to people in a magazine or that we saw on television, as opposed that's what I think.

Kerri: 31:30

That's what I was going to say earlier, like when I was talking about my mom and the big, strong girl thing. What I remember is like what I thought was beauty when I was younger was I remember studying. My aunts were both artists, they both painted and I remember studying their hands and just thinking they were so beautiful and creative and those types of things. Even so much so that now, when I just saw my cousin, I was like you hold your hands, just like your mom did, like I noticed those things. Those were the things I was noticing then. I was noticing You're such an old soul Like you're that old.

Tracy: 32:06

you were that old soul as a little person, I think. And I don't think that I was looking at my Barbies and saying I want to be her. But if you ask me if Barbie was beautiful, I would say yes, barbie is beautiful.

Mary: 32:19

True and that maybe, if I were asked, do you think you look like Barbie? I'd probably say oh hell, no yeah actually no.

Tracy: 32:30

No, I don't even look like the Jodi doll.

Mary: 32:38

I look like Ken more than I look like Barbie or the pooping dog.

Tracy: 32:45

That dog was neat.

Mary: 32:49

Well, thank you.

Tracy: 32:52

I love, loved my Barbie horses. Those actually I love love. Those were like I like playing Barbie, but I really love the horses.

Kerri: 33:00

Do you think you?

Tracy: 33:01

can love the horses too. Did what?

Kerri: 33:07

Do you think you like the horses the best? Because they were the most relatable, the most realistic.

Tracy: 33:13

I think I always liked animals, like always liked animals, and when I was little Carrie, I thought I would grow up to be a jockey.

Kerri: 33:20

Oh, that's great so.

Mary: 33:27

So I always wanted a horse as a child. I'd bag my dad, give me a horse, give me a horse. And I remember playing with horses not the Barbie horse, but any, any form of plastic horse. And in fact there's a story of me getting lost, separated from my mom at Hills, and she was frantic and she said she described what I was wearing and I was carrying a horse and they found me eventually.

Kerri: 34:02

It reminds me I got my parents purposefully walked away from me and Kmart once to see if I knew what to do. I mean, they were keeping an eye on me, but like we're trying to stay out of my view to see what I would do, and I went up to the service desk at Kmart and said my parents are lost, cute.

Tracy: 34:23

It's adorable. Jen couldn't be here tonight, but she sent us this meme and it was about the Barbie movie and somebody had shared in this meme. Did you dislike how Ken was portrayed? Did it make you uncomfortable to see his identity tied solely to his perceived romantic interest and that he was only validated when seen through her gaze? You're really close to realizing something big sweetie, Keep going. How uncomfortable do you think that made people feel People or men? I think both. I think that there's women that put men in boxes like that too. Yeah.

Kerri: 35:00

I think that's part of the Barbie world, right? You have to be perfect and beautiful and you're only validated when you're seen through Ken's eyes.

Tracy: 35:10

No, through Barbie's eyes.

Kerri: 35:12

Right, but that's the flip side.

Tracy: 35:16

That's why it's the end. I don't think it's through the Barbie world, though. I think it's like I think of all the 007 movies or Mission Impossible movies, where I mean literally think about 007. They interchange with women each time.

Kerri: 35:29

It's the unattainable standard that has been portrayed over the years and through the patriarchy that keeps women from all.

Tracy: 35:41

Or as an accessory. I think of all of those macho movies where the woman is the accessory.

Mary: 35:47

And objectified.

Tracy: 35:48

Yes.

Kerri: 35:49

I don't know anyone who's seen it and didn't like it, so I'm feeling very like about it.

Mary: 35:56

It makes our conversation more interesting it does.

Tracy: 35:59

But I understand the reasons you didn't like it, carrie, I do. If you took the little kid thing out of it and it was just an art film, an entirely intelligent director, that there were so many messages shown in so many beautiful ways in this movie that I actually I had to research afterwards to see what some of that meant. Like the older woman that was sitting on the bench, she was a famous costume designer that has been critically acclaimed over and over and over and you never see her. And then Mary Barbie says to her wow, you're beautiful. And instead of saying it, brushing it off, she says yes, I am like something. She's like, yes, I am beautiful. And it was just such a like. Oh, she's probably like 70 or 80, right?

Tracy: 36:48

Didn't she say I know yeah, oh, yeah, she said I know, she said I know, I know yeah.

Jodie: 36:53

I thought that was so cute. I didn't know who she was, yeah, so there were so many things like that.

Tracy: 36:58

Yeah, that's awesome. I'm like I've got to figure this stuff out because there's I know there's stuff here that I'm not getting.

Kerri: 37:07

Yeah, I think for me that part of that is is that I guess this is the flip side of it all. For someone who did play pretend as a child more than with Barbies. I tend not to like stories or movies that are faced in fantasy. I like real world stuff that that I can like, process without having to figure it out.

Kerri: 37:36

You know what I mean. That makes a lot of sense here. I don't like to have to like, oh, what did that? What was that in France? And now I've got to go look up four things to figure out that that lady on the bench was a director who created beautiful things and she's been beautiful and doing beautiful things her whole life. That's why she can. She said that she knows it, she's, she's experienced it Like I. Just I don't know. I've never been into that kind of so you don't like, like sci-fi and that type of stuff either.

Kerri: 38:06

I don't. I don't Like. I remember when the Twilight books came out and people were saying you should read them, you should read them, I was like I didn't. I did read them and I did enjoy them, but I remember thinking there is no way in hell I'm going to be able to read those books about vampires and werewolves and enjoy it.

Tracy: 38:27

I think I remember you telling me that at the time.

Kerri: 38:30

Yeah.

Tracy: 38:32

Now, fantasy is probably my favorite. Like this weekend, I had a really busy weekend but still found time to read, you know, a fantasy book Now, my like self-help ones and the you know things that are not fantasy, that take me a while to get through, but for me it's like an escapism.

Mary: 38:49

Yeah, and the sounds of it, this will be in a women's studies course and they'll spend an entire semester digesting and picking the movie apart to find all of those hidden gems.

Tracy: 39:05

I think so too. I would like to teach that class.

Jodie: 39:11

Oh my gosh, I would like to teach that class.

Tracy: 39:13

I went and got my degree to teach a college class. I would love that.

Jodie: 39:20

I would like to take that class.

Kerri: 39:22

I would not but you would root me on, I would root you on and I would support you and I probably would take it if you taught it because I love you and care about you, but I probably would be the person that made you question everything you were doing. But what about this Trace? But what about this? What do you think of this?

Mary: 39:47

Probably make for a much better course if there was an opposer involved.

Tracy: 39:54

I think that the voice of dissent is the most important voice in a conversation, because the voice of dissent keeps you honest and it keeps you from going too far right and too far left.

Kerri: 40:07

And look, we can have differing opinions and get along. Oh yeah, I love you, I love you.

Tracy: 40:14

You don't like the same movie.

Jodie: 40:16

You mean, you're not going to stop being friends, you're not going to unfriend each other on Facebook because you have different opinions.

Kerri: 40:22

No.

Jodie: 40:23

That's so mature.

Mary: 40:28

I think that's pronounced mature, oh of course.

Jodie: 40:32

And if I was mature enough, I would know that.

Tracy: 40:40

Is Jody. Did Izzy go with you to the movie?

Jodie: 40:44

Oh, that's interesting. So we went together, but I sat with Dom's mom in her car and Izzy sat with Dom in my car.

Tracy: 40:55

Oh nice.

Jodie: 40:56

You went to the drive-in. Yeah, I think she liked it. Yeah, again, she's 16, so how much does she say to me? Like three words a day, I think, is all I get.

Mary: 41:07

So if you asked her to write an essay about it, she wouldn't do it.

Jodie: 41:13

If you asked her to, she would. If I asked her to, I'd get the I roll and the Psy and the. You know, do I have to Really?

Tracy: 41:24

Mary what are you thinking? Now I'm going to see it. I don't want to see it.

Mary: 41:30

I don't want to see it. I'd probably see it now, just out of curiosity.

Jodie: 41:38

I would like to know more about. I would like to do a deep dive into Tracy's class and then see it again, see all these Easter eggs that I missed because I had no idea that they were in there. But I would like to see it again and try to find them all.

Tracy: 41:54

I found a really good Easter egg article I'm going to send to you, jody, that. I sent to Erin.

Jodie: 41:59

Awesome, thank you.

Mary: 42:00

I'm thinking it's probably interesting when you were talking about all the versions of Barbie no, that couldn't have been a real thing and only to find out that it was yeah. Yeah, that sounds interesting to me.

Kerri: 42:16

I would love for you to watch it, because you've had all of our feedback before. I had no idea. The only thing I heard was Tracy say I was blown away. I went into it waiting to be blown away. That might be part of why I was not blown away. It's the Barbie movie. I know it's going to happen. I'm just going to form my own opinion.

Mary: 42:47

Blown away. Blow it up.

Jodie: 42:53

Maybe this means that I'm just a shallow person or I don't look as deeply into the movie lines that I'm watching, but sometimes a movie is just a movie To me, it doesn't necessarily have to have a specific message or reach out to this person or that group or whatever. Sometimes a movie is just a movie. I just want to be entertained. Just actors, come out of your boxes, entertain me and then go back in your boxes and let me go on with my day. I don't really need everything to have an agenda or a hidden message.

Mary: 43:25

I agree, Jody.

Tracy: 43:27

I don't usually either, jody. I did go into it thinking I don't know if I'm going to enjoy this, but then ended up loving it.

Jodie: 43:35

Can you at least admit, Carrie, that Margot Robbie is freaking beautiful?

Kerri: 43:39

I don't want to say she. I mean, she's a human. I don't know. She might be beautiful, I don't know. I didn't even realize it was her. I don't think beauty on people's looks. I guess that's what I want to say. I don't know her, so I cannot tell you if she's a beautiful person or not.

Jodie: 44:02

Okay.

Tracy: 44:04

Aesthetically, she's gorgeous.

Jodie: 44:09

I didn't realize she was the same person from Suicide Squad until someone told me Right, she looks so different. The makeup, yeah yeah.

Tracy: 44:20

Yeah, makeup and costumes.

Mary: 44:21

I haven't seen that either.

Jodie: 44:23

Oh no, I didn't see that either.

Kerri: 44:25

She was Harley Quinn All right, jason, do you want to tell us how to make tea?

Tracy: 44:31

I'd love to tell you how to make tea, carrie. I want to hear your Barbie experience, whether you saw the movie, liked it or didn't like it. But I also want to hear what your relationship to Barbie is. Did you love her, not love her, play with her, not play with her? Did you like the horse better?

Jodie: 44:46

than the doll Like in Gary and the Dark屈a. Yeah, definitely what? Oh, you're not cute.