Rise Into Real Love with Jonathan Boncek: Reclaiming Your Inner Voice

The relationship we have with ourselves is the foundation from which all others rise. In this thought-provoking conversation with Jonathan Boncek, we explore how self-love, authentic vulnerability, and emotional awareness are not just healing tools—but the very ground from which we grow and rise into healthier, more connected relationships.

Jonathan shares his powerful personal evolution from photographer to practitioner of Rapid Transformational Therapy—a modality that blends hypnotherapy, CBT, and neuro-linguistic programming. He explains with clarity and compassion how the way we speak to ourselves shapes the lives we lead. “Speak to yourself like you're speaking to your five-year-old self,” he encourages, “with encouragement, support, and the most unconditional love you can.”

Together, we rise into a deeper conversation on male vulnerability—why it’s been resisted, how it shows up in the body, and what it means to reclaim emotional expression as a form of strength. With his metaphor of becoming “a warrior in a garden rather than a gardener in a war,” Jonathan invites us to rise out of survival mode and into grounded, compassionate presence.

We also explore rising in romantic and platonic relationships—releasing the myth that another person completes us, and instead honoring relationships as sacred spaces where two whole people rise alongside one another, witnessing and supporting each other’s growth. Jonathan offers practical tools for recognizing emotional cycles, setting boundaries, and knowing when to speak and when to simply hold space.

Perhaps most transformative is Jonathan’s invitation to look in the mirror, meet your own eyes, and say “I love you” until you feel it. This rising into self-love is where it all begins. As he reminds us, “The way you speak to yourself will become the way the world speaks to you.”

Ready to rise in your relationship with yourself—and others? Listen now and rediscover why your softest truths may be your greatest strength.

Join us this fall at the 2025 Women Rise Retreat.  More information at www.growingwithtea.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Jonathan
• 1:30 Rapid Transformational Therapy Explained
• 4:00 The Power of Self-Talk
• 9:16 Self-Love and Complete Relationships
• 19:37 Responsibility in Relationships
• 25:41 Male Vulnerability and Emotional Growth
• 34:55 Setting Healthy Boundaries
• 49:31 Mirror Exercise for Self-Love
• 54:29 Heart-Centered Living and Closing Thoughts

Transcript

Kerri: 0:00

All right, welcome back to Spill the Tea. We are excited to have you all with us today. We have a guest with us that Tracy has invited and we've just spent a little time getting to know, so I'm going to throw it over to her and she will introduce him.

Tracy: 0:16

Oh, thanks, kira. This is my friend, jonathan. We introduced Jonathan to the group just a few minutes ago. We met in Charleston, south Carolina, when I was overseeing an entrepreneurship program. He's an entrepreneur himself in a couple of different ways, and every time he would come to visit us to help with our projects, whatever we were working on, we would get into these long philosophical conversations that would go sideways and down rabbit holes about self-care and about becoming and about rising and all the things that we've been talking about in the last year, and a lot of the work that we do is T. He does with men, so or was doing at the time with men and now has expanded, and I'm really excited for him to share with the group his most recent certification, because when I first met Jonathan, he was a photographer, videographer, and he's really moved into an additional pathway. So, jonathan, introduce yourself to the room.

Jonathan: 1:18

Yes, thank y'all. I'm Jonathan Bonsek and, as Tracy mentioned, I've been a photographer videographer since 2009. So I'm thankful I had a good business here and, as Tracy mentioned, I've been a photographer videographer since 2009. So I'm thankful I had a good business here and I still have that business. But over the past two years I've been diving more and more into the self-improvement space, if you will, as a big generalization, and received a certification after a year-long school in rapid transformational therapy, a certification after a year-long school in rapid transformational therapy.

Jonathan: 1:46

And this modality of therapy came out of the UK from a woman named Marissa Peer, who developed it as a conglomerate of hypnotherapy, cognitive behavioral therapy and neuro-linguistic programming. So it utilizes those three components of therapies into one to really get to the root cause of issues really quickly. And part about getting to those root causes quickly, you can actually reprogram your subconscious. Once you find that root cause, we interrupt it and install a new program via a custom self-hypnosis audio, all on how the client wants to feel, because it's important that we feel the way that our words are specifically spoken. So a very powerful modality has a very high efficacy rate if the client does their part, because they have to participate in their recovery. It's not just I hypnotize them and they're fixed. It's always a work in process and to that I like to say you're the process of life, not necessarily the product of life. So we're ever evolving and ever working towards to better ourselves.

Kerri: 2:57

I love everything you just said.

Jonathan: 3:00

Good start.

Kerri: 3:03

Like oh, I want to pick his brain, so what? The one thing I did like what that you said was the part about you can do your part, but we all have to do our work too. I know for sure. One of the things that I've been working on is really paying attention to the way I talk to myself, and recently I heard something where someone named they just call their like ego self, their name and they say now, carrie, we're gonna have a good day today. None of that, like you, just have this inner dialogue. Oh, I really like that concept. I'm going to try it. So I've been doing that the last couple of weeks. Like anytime I get some bad thought going in my mind, I say, carrie, I love that, carrie, and I speak about.

Jonathan: 3:56

You know our self-talk and a big message. So I see clients in RTT, the Rapid Transformational Therap therapy modality, but also lead online workshops and business workshops, and one of the week is designated specifically to self-love in relation to self-talk, how we've talked to ourselves, because self-esteem can only come from self-praise. I can say I hold you four ladies in the highest of esteem, but if you don't feel that, then that doesn't mean anything. Self-esteem can only come from the self and oftentimes people confuse confidence with self-esteem, where confidence is my ability to perform an action or a role. But we can say Robin Williams and Anthony Bourdain, kate Spade, all these people were confident in their role. But they didn say Robin Williams and Anthony Bourdain, kate Spade, all these people were confident in their role, but they didn't have self-esteem. And so with in regards to that, I love what you said, carrie, because I'll even take that further when, specifically, when there's the negative chatter in our voice, in our head, and we all get this right, is to actually isolate that and, and I would say, give it a funny name so for me it's johnny, you know or give it something silly, right, so that you can identify that it's not you, it's just a part of you that is trying to do something for you.

Jonathan: 5:18

And that's where people get a little bit hung up, because oftentimes that voice, while it's a negative reinforcement, is there to either protect, to punish or to prioritize you, and that's based on ego and a lot of people struggle with that because it's like I don't understand that this negative voice is trying to protect me.

Jonathan: 5:39

In a way, it might be keeping you from putting yourself out there so that you don't get hurt or emotionally insecure in those areas. So it's going to put up a facade. But the truth is, as children we're all taught we have this good angel, this bad angel on our shoulder, this good wolf and this bad wolf, and then when we're let out as adults, that goes away, but we still have that. And so I really, whether it's my yoga classes or working with groups or individuals, I'm like speak to yourself like you're speaking to your five-year-old self, with encouragement, support and the most unconditional love you can, because you spend the most amount of time with yourself, and the way you speak to yourself will become the way the world speaks to you. So speak love into your reflection.

Eryn: 6:31

It's huge. That was incredible. I'm so impressed by you and your thoughts. Excuse me, my dog.

Jonathan: 6:43

Thank you. I appreciate you saying that I was carrie, I carrie.

Mary: 6:47

I have this image that you had sent the picture of little carrie in your um girl scouts outfit, and so, as he's saying, oh, you should talk to yourself as little, carrie. I just had this vision in my mind that that's maybe how you would be, uh, moving forward with this idea.

Kerri: 7:05

Yeah, Well, so with what I just shared, Jonathan, you said you might choose a, like a funny name. Actually, when I when I have that conversation with myself, Mary, in several episodes ago we talked about how you have a voice for animals, the voice I hear in my head is like my mother's voice. It's the way my mom would speak to me, like very matter of fact.

Tracy: 7:34

Wait a second. It's been almost six months, maybe a year. Mary, you can share now what your animal voice sounds like right?

Mary: 7:42

No, I cannot. Way too vulnerable. They might think that there's a seventh podcaster.

Jonathan: 7:55

You know, carrie, and thank you, erin, for saying that. One thing that came to mind that I'm not sure if you are familiar with Jay Shetty. One thing that came to mind that I'm not sure if you are familiar with Jay Shetty he shares about the cancers of the mind, which are the three C's complaining, comparing and criticizing. So I was teaching a yoga class about a month ago and it's particularly probably 95% to 98% all women, which is just natural, what that is, which is 100% okay, I enjoy that. But we were talking about body image and I said, you know, a woman was talking to me before that. She was struggling with it and I was like, well, that's funny, I'm kind of going to speak on that. But in regards to that voice in your head and let's take that even further, if you're talking to your five-year-old self, let's talk to our bodies like it's that five-year-old self, because your body is ever changing. We're all not in the same bodies. We were 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 50 years ago, et cetera, whatever it may be, and the fact is it's always changing and it's always there for us. Fact is, it's always changing and it's always there for us. But if you can really self-assess and observe yourself. How often do we compare our bodies, do we complain about our bodies or do we criticize our bodies to ourself in the mirror? And so now, if you can actually pluck that out and say that's my five-year-old little girl or little boy, would I criticize that little boy or girl, compare them to others or complain to them about it? And no child and I have. I'm a parent, I have children. I would never want to, it's never my intention to do that to them. So if we can start to again speak love into our reflection, I really believe this that if you start to love the parts of your body, even though that's not where you want it to be, your body will start to change and react to that love that you're giving out. And I discovered this.

Jonathan: 9:57

I'm 43, I was 37 years old and I realized when I was looking in the mirror I was kind of down on myself and I realized I had never looked at my own eyes in the mirror. I was always looking at parts of my body. I was let me back up I was the baddest kid in elementary school, the second biggest kid in middle school, and then I lost a bunch of weight in high school and so it was very hard for me in those early years because I was bullied. I also couldn't say my R's. So you take a very chubby kid with an awful bowl cut and couldn't say his R's. So it was rough.

Jonathan: 10:35

But fast forward to 37, I was like I've never really connected with myself in my own eye and I got really, really close to the mirror, so close that I could actually see the reflection of myself in my pupil. So there's that reflection of me and I just said I love you and I said it again and again and I just started crying and it was such a release cry, to the point where I was crying, I was sobbing, but then I stayed with it and I said I'm sorry and I forgive you and it was such a very powerful moment. I got chills right now thinking of it Because I feel like it was the first time I really ever turned that lens around. It's like I love myself and I really believe if we can love starts it's an inside job. When we can actually love ourselves, we can pour out that love to others. And since we're going to talk about relationships, you know that old jerry mcguire garbage you complete me really bugs me. You know, I might be aging my dating myself there, but the thing is it's like I believe and I work with couples as well that we don't want two whole or broken um, excuse me. We don't want two whole or broken, excuse me. We don't want two half people or incomplete people coming together. There you go. You know, I think Miley Cyrus said it best I can buy myself flowers, you know, but I feel like if we are an incomplete person in a relationship looking for that other person to feel that emotional need of feeling like we're good enough or, you know, I look good enough, or I'm giving all my power away to that other person, then they have the power to take that away from us when things go wrong. And so you really, you know, when it comes to a relationship, I think it's like two parallel lines that we want to be have somebody that really supports our individual individuality as well as our individual growth, because we are going to change over time, kind of spiritual awakening or just change.

Jonathan: 12:47

I had to ask my wife because I was a little much for her in this new found light, and I said one day I was like hey, you know, I know I can be a lot in this. I'm very excited about this new direction I'm going in. If you're committed to do the work with me and for yourself, is it okay if I go in this new direction? And she's like, yeah, I'm going to love you? I was like cool, so I can get as weird as I want. She was like hold on. But I was like you know what I mean. But I say that because what happens?

Jonathan: 13:18

I found out about a year before that I was running three different businesses. My wife had just got her esthetician license and she wanted to start her own thing and we had just had our second child. I was so excited and driven that I was coming home and I was saying, hey, maybe you should think about networking with these people, maybe you should think about this for your business or maybe you should do this type of online thing. And what turned out?

Jonathan: 13:47

While I was in good intention, I was shooting all over her and that was really suffocating her, and so those two parallel lines I was so engaged in how I thought she had to grow that that line started coming this way. And, yeah, it might converge over time, but eventually it's going to start going further and further apart, and so we we went to marriage counseling and it was the first session. I was like this is my fault. I'm the one. I'm in good intention, trying to encourage her, but I'm not letting her be herself and grow at her own time. So that was a big aha moment for me in in relationships in general, that no one wants to be told what to do, how to act, and so I had to to back off that and just, you know, let her grow in her own way.

Eryn: 14:42

I think that's great. I think you bring up a really good topic about how self-reflection is also very important in setting boundaries, like, is this an appropriate boundary that I'm setting? And it's great to look back. I just admire people and you know, it's like a great quality to have to be able to look back and you say, yeah, I was wrong and this is what I learned, instead of denying it Right, so that's definitely admirable.

Jonathan: 17:14

Thank you, aaron, and you know that I'm trying to teach my kids that and what we're talking about there is actually responsibility.

Jonathan: 17:24

All right, I'm saying you know it was my fault, and to have the responsibility to admit that and then the responsibility to change that, to share with people that you know. So many, so many people in our world today think of responsibility as a burden. Oh, I have to do this or have to do that. But that's actually. Let's flip that, because your responsibility is actually where your power lies and if you can come to it with humility, then you can. You can say, like we are all human, perfectionism is isolating, so like I'm sorry I messed up, but I'm willing to take responsibility for that and change that, because I care and I think that love anything you love in this world, whether it be a pet or your kids, your wife, your job love takes responsibility. And I tell people what do you love enough to grow for which you can be synonymous with change if you will, because if something's not working, you have the ability to respond and change your direction, and so that's what I really encourage people to do that look at their responsibility as empowerment that's awesome.

Tracy: 18:34

It sounds, sounds like you know. In that situation, you were able to support your wife. You know who's, but how? How were you able to help her with the boundary work that had to happen after that? I'm that person that like pushes too much and then I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. But how were you able to be supportive of her and saying, hey, this is you're doing, it, you're doing?

Jonathan: 19:04

the thing. Yeah, you know, I think it comes down to celebrating her small wins, because oftentimes we can beat ourselves up that we're not doing enough, fast enough, you know, and so constantly reiterating, look how far you've come. And then, honestly, at that point it was a lot of giving yourself grace, because I was the husband working three jobs and I had to be like hold on, we have a three-year-old and a newborn, so what's her important job right now is to be with the children and that's what she wanted to be. So, you know, stepping back and really assessing the situation and be like what's most important right now, but to support her going on.

Jonathan: 19:50

You know there's a lot there because we can go in different directions is understanding, I think, within the relationship is is she looking for my advice or does she just want to vent? You know and that was probably the biggest thing because most of the time within that growth I found when things were going hard, she just needed to vent and release some of that pressure verbally. And I'm the closest one to her, so I'm going to be the proverbial punching bag there and which is okay. I understand that role. Um, you know, I only as far as to support her boundaries Tracy. I only offer her advice when it's directly asked for it and I feel like that's probably the biggest support, because then she'll come to me really openheartedly saying, hey, I need some help with something. Otherwise it's almost like I don't come, come at her and be like hey, you know what your problem is. That never works.

Kerri: 20:51

I was going to, I was going to say, when you were talking about responsibility and talking in that area, I was thinking, when I was thinking about this conversation, to me, like the boundary setting is it's staying in your integrity and speaking the truth. So when you can get in that space, you know, like if you were telling your wife what she should do, you probably are in a better space now where you're like hey, I have some ideas about your business and if you ever want to talk about them, I would like to be of support. Like you've probably got down that road and I just think that that's kind of how the boundary setting happens, not that it's easy, like you just gave me a good example to think about, but I know in the moment it's not. It's easy, like you just gave me a good example to think about, but I know in the moment it's not always that easy. But to me that's what creating boundaries is about.

Jonathan: 21:46

No, thank you for saying that, carrie and my wife and I have you know I do cherish our relationship. We've been married for 14 years and it the strength of our relationship has actually come through having those very, very hard conversations in a way that both of them are going to be received. It's not fighting, it's discussion and it's challenges, and it's it's contrast. Right, we grow through contrast, and so if we can embrace the contrast as growth potential instead of roadblocks, I like to say love is like a fire. When you first get together, it's big and it's beautiful and the fire's roaring, you're like great, but then the flames start to die down and if you don't work at the coals and mess with the fire, it will die out. But if you do start to pick at the fire, those coals actually start to glow red, hot and it becomes. It's not big and beautiful, it's just this glowing area that is actually hotter than the original fire, and so it has taken a lot of work. And now our boundaries.

Jonathan: 22:51

I think the only time they're really verbalized is when it comes like hey, I just need to go hang out with my sister-in-law lives here, and so I just need to go hang out with her. My sister-in-law lives here and so I'm going over to my sister's house. I need a little bit of time. Or she'll even say, hey, you need some time solo or you need some time with your guys. It's like, yeah, I really do. And whenever there's that voice saying or almost giving me permission or vice versa, it feels so good because you actually feel seen.

Kerri: 23:22

It's safe, I'm sure.

Tracy: 23:25

Yeah, I think sometimes you know, it's easy for us to have this conversation in terms of what we just did, but what do you think women might not always realize about how men experience vulnerability?

Jonathan: 23:46

Yeah, great question, tracy. You know my dad was a Vietnam vet and I was raised great dad, raised with the big boys. Don't cry antigen, and you know you suck it up. And if we say that word suck it up, what am I doing? I'm actually sucking up all that negative energy of those negative emotions, not processing them out and let them sit in my body, and a feeling not processed in tears will make other organs weep. Disease starts happening.

Jonathan: 24:14

A person actually talking about how do I talk about vulnerability to CEOs or C-suite executives because I'm starting to work with them about creating a conscious culture I said well, you know I speak in metaphors.

Jonathan: 24:28

The strongest thing on this planet is actually the softest in water, and so water will erode rock, and so we've been taught to be this rock as a man.

Jonathan: 24:42

But the truth is, the softness will erode you down, and I actually believe the softness is actually how we relate to people, actually close the gap and say you know, I see you, I feel you and I understand.

Jonathan: 25:03

Things are hard, and so for men, I really encourage them a to go to the mirror, because so many men struggle just saying I love you to themselves, because most men look at vulnerability as a weakness. I don't want to appear weak. Well, let's flip that what's happening in your life, because oftentimes the rage or the anger or, if you want to talk about the anxiety, is really just this protective mechanism to not make them feel vulnerable, but that's killing them literally by creating disease in their body, and we store emotions at different areas of our body, depending on what the emotion is. And so I'm like look, vulnerability, as Brene Brown speaks about all the time, is literally your superpower, because that's I can share something vulnerable to you for, and y'all instantly feel those feelings that I'm sharing, and it'll be kind of close the gap and it'll create trust. Now you have to use discernment on when to use your or display your vulnerability, but I encourage all men to speak their vulnerability out, because I think that'll actually bring people closer to them.

Tracy: 26:15

Yeah, I remember, Jonathan my boys were in college and in high school at the time that that you and I would talk a lot and I just always loved your insight about how to connect with them and just appreciated that because I did not want to leave them with that sense of suck it up that you know yeah, there's a great quote that says it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.

Jonathan: 26:45

And I talk about that to men a lot because you know there is this aspect of of masculinity when it comes to taking care of your body and being able to protect when need and I'm I teach yoga, I'm not a fighter and I'm not one who looks for that but you want to have that confidence to be able to protect, and that just comes to taking care of your body and you know, being able to provide in certain areas that need need to be provided, if that's, you know carrying wood or or chopping wood or doing whatever.

Jonathan: 27:16

But that warrior in a garden can enjoy the flowers and hopefully, that warrior in a garden doesn't ever have to use any force, because a true martial artist is such a master that they never have to rely on their force. They can actually redirect their opponents via their words or via redirecting their energy, and so it's so important to be able to. The true beauty is sitting in that garden and seeing the beauty that is there and seeing the flowers. And you know, I think that becomes more of a complete man when you can be soft, you know, and cuddle with your kids and show them vulnerability. And I mean, my kids have seen me cry and I think that's a very powerful thing for my son to see me be so sad. Or, you know, I'll cry at cartoons. Just you know, inside out I'm boohooing watching those movies because there's emotion there and I think to be able to display that emotion so vulnerably is that's true power.

Tracy: 28:27

I think as a man, you know and you're working in a healing space particularly around emotion. Um, I always have found it interesting to talk about gender dynamics with you, so I know even before we got on, you had shared a little bit about your class and just the number of women versus the number of men that were in the class. So can you speak a little bit about that and how we encourage the men in our life to get help if they need it?

Jonathan: 28:55

Yeah, yeah, great question. So, going back to my certification in RTT, there was 89 students there. There was only four males, two heterosexual males, and so when I got my certification, they're like you need to take this to the males and to the masses, because more men need to be in touch with their emotional selves. And you know, that's exciting to me. Now I have run into challenges within my work where men just have this hard facade, and it's interesting, even in the space of RTT, is that a lot of men, unfortunately, that I've worked with didn't hear that they were loved as children. Their men, their fathers, didn't tell them that they loved them, and so I have found it in this healing space that maybe because I'm a man, they have a man, they have more of a guard up and don't does not let their nervous system relax to get into this hypnotic state when I'm guiding them, but always I bring it back to you know, the metaphor for of water and thinking about you know, being a confident man is is also being able to show love to all those around you and to be able to know because if I'm on my deathbed, I want those people that I've loved to be around me because they want to be able to know, because if I'm on my deathbed, I want those people that I've loved to be around me because they want to be there, not because they have to be there, and I can look all those people in the eye and say you know, I loved y'all as much as I could and did everything I could to show y'all and make y'all feel loved, to show you on, make y'all feel loved, and I really do believe I would die happy because I poured everything out to them. And you know, love is also the most powerful force in the universe. And so just reminding men that you know there's a difference in power versus force. You know, true power is empowering people and being soft and going with the flow and letting your family develop. I say that cautiously, letting your family be the individuals that they're going to be. It's kind of guiding and stepping aside, not forcing, if that makes sense. But as far as speaking to your question about how do we encourage our men to get more in touch with their emotional body, I think it's an interesting topic to actually ask questions to men once they have opened the door, maybe to have this conversation, because it's always a good indication once you can open the emotional conversation like how's that working for you, you know, and how is being emotionally rigid working for you? How is keeping everything inside working for you? Because we can say emotions are heavy, or the conversation we have, where there's some drama going on, it's heavy. Well, you're actually picking that up and carrying that in your body. And so how does the man want to feel? Do you want to feel light? Do you want to feel flexible?

Jonathan: 32:16

Even think of the word ignorant, because I've also worked with some older men in their 70s that like well, I'm just setting my ways. Okay, the only constant in life is change. So I hate to say this, but the root word of ignorance is ignore. So you're choosing to ignore progress around you or change around you because you're scared of change. Why are you scared of change? Because you don't think it'll be as good as it is now or how it used to be. Is that not ignorant? And I have to be very cautious how I phrase that because some people can get offended by it, but I really like to ask questions on. You know, when people end up talking to me, usually they've tried a lot of different modalities or they're just exhausted and they're willing to try something new, and so they know that something has to give. And we'll circle all the way back to that responsibility aspect.

Jonathan: 33:15

I say look, man, you're. You're carrying so much weight as far as your this emotional toll of your life in everywhere that you have resistance in your life, whether it be the people, the places, the circumstances of your life. All those situations are showing you where you're not free inside because you're holding on to judgments, biases, resentments on all the way you think the world should be, so that you can be happy. So what's the common denominator there? It's you. So when you can change and soften because so often men, all of us do this we go through like grasping onto things, onto situations, onto the way people have to act. When we grasp, we're holding on with a tight fist, we're grasping onto something. I'm going through life fighting when I'm doing that literally with a closed fist. But if we can actually soften and open up our hand, release those judgments, those biases and those resentments, we can actually open up our hand to receive what needs to come to us.

Jonathan: 34:31

And I do believe that you know waking up, if you want to call it that, is actually waking up to your own bullshit, right? Oh, it's me. I have to change what I, what the story I've been telling myself my whole life. Maybe challenge that. Why do I think that way, you know? And so asking questions that are deeper, because if you want bigger answers, you got to ask deeper questions. And usually when we have these conversations I'm like well, how does that feel? Like man, I just feel good. Just, we say that, getting it off my chest. So think about that heaviness that's sitting on the chest in the body the whole time. So trying to offer questions to make people shift perspectives is just such a good way, because no one will change until they realize it's.

Kerri: 35:21

It's up to them rough there's always that point where, um, you just have to let people live their own story right, like you can want things for them or hope things for them, but you have to realize that everybody's just living their own story and find grace and how they're getting through their story, you know like, oh well, maybe they're dealing with a lot of stuff. Or maybe you know they had trauma from when they're young and they're still working through that and they're figuring things out.

Jonathan: 35:57

Yeah, 100%. And that's again that quote that life will present people, places and circumstances to show you where you're not free and just to be able to keep on doing the work and to not give up. And you know, it's uh. I again, I'm 43 and I remember when I had my 40th birthday, my wife did me a big surprise party and you know, some of the people were like, how does it feel to be over the hill? And I'm like what is that? You know, is that just saying that like we reach some age and then we start going downhill?

Jonathan: 36:30

I don't, I disagree with that because I really believe we should be summiting our life and as we continue to grow, just like on everest, there's more base camps. So we set different standards and we keep on going. But as we're climbing the mountain of our life and we want to summit the mountain of our life, it's not going to get any less steep as you climb up that mountain. It's probably going to get a little bit harder. However, I do believe that life gets a little bit progressively easier because we realize what's not for us, and there's not that FOMO, it's more of the joy of missing out, the JOMO Like, and there's not that FOMO, it's more of the joy of missing out, the JOMO, like you know what. That's not for me and that's okay. So I think when we can find those little joys and I really try to simplify it down, and this is all over the internet as far as a gratitude practice, and I try to tell my son, who's eight, he tends to come home from school and let me know about everything bad that happened all the time, even in the morning this happened bad yesterday. I'm like you know what, felix man, I just want you to give me five or ten things that happened that was good and it can be as small as you can, like whatever you want to put out, because what we're doing is we're actually switching his lens and and strengthening that gratitude muscle so that, you know, for a male, a warrior in a garden, I can just look and be like man. Look how beautiful the flowers are today, look at the sky, look at, look what's around us. You know, and yeah, I think it's so important for men in particularly, always feel like they have to be doing and I do believe that some of the toxic masculinity comes from good intention, where we're fixers, we think we have to fix everything and we have to be the providers. But, like that happened to me when we went to marriage counseling, that situation didn't need my input of marriage counseling, that situation didn't need my input. My input was actually making it worse. So, yeah, I think sometimes to marry the divine masculine and the divine feminine, more males need to be able to receive and be happy with that.

Jonathan: 38:49

To receive a compliment, receive a gift, receive somebody's love, without coming up with an excuse or saying I don't deserve that, but to truly actually. I remember Tracy's side piece. Right before you moved, I remember a client gifted me a really big trip. My wife and I and you really impacted me that because I spoke to you about it and you told me that she needs to give you and your wife that for her. And I was struggling on receiving that because I was like this is way too much, I don't deserve this. But you're actually like, no, you need to do that for her, the gift giver, and that really shifted my lens of like. Sometimes, as a male, I just need to be able to receive people's graciousness and people's love and people's compliments instead of putting up a facade of I'm tough, I don't need this, so no, so thank you for that years ago.

Tracy: 39:44

It's awesome. We had really great deep conversations. It was so cool. Yes, we did. Do you guys have other questions for jonathan mary? You've been really quiet I've been just listening.

Mary: 40:00

I caught some bernie brownies in there. She's my favorite, she's awesome. So you and I are best friends now, yeah.

Eryn: 40:09

I think I'm just in awe because it's so atypical I don't even want to call it atypical to hear a man speak in this way, to be so emotionally literate and so in tune with their own psyche, and I don't know I'm, I'm just like I don't even know what to ask you.

Kerri: 40:34

I have a question that maybe, maybe, as a group of women, we would like to hear the perspective of a man. So if, if we were, if if one of your friends, your wife, were to want to set a boundary with you, what would be the best way for you to receive it?

Jonathan: 40:56

Great question. You know I'll preface this by any time within a relationship that there is contrast and I spoke about contrast as being challenges or disagreements, whatever's synonymous with that that it's so important that, if you have something, a need that needs to be voiced, that you understand the emotional state that your partner is in when you decide to deliver that message. Because if we are, if I decide to set a boundary when we're in a heated discussion, almost a hundred percent of the time defense is going to come up. And now we're in an emotional argument where the two sides just want to feel right so that they can feel heard. And so it's interesting when you're in a conversation where either party just wants to feel right, because now we're starting to move into emotional needs that aren't being met Right. Why do I need to feel like I'm right, or why does she need to feel like I'm right, to feel, ultimately, to feel good enough?

Kerri: 42:03

Or why do I need them to feel like I'm right, correct?

Jonathan: 42:07

Correct and one of the best things in relationships to say is you might be right?

Kerri: 42:13

Let me think about that. Yeah, and that's. The truth is that you can both be right, like you can have your part and I can have my part, and one's not more right than the other, they're just different.

Jonathan: 42:23

A hundred percent, carrie, and I would say that is, you know perspectives right. There are 7.8 billion people on this planet. There's 7.8 billion perspectives of reality, because each one of us has a different story and this was actually huge backing up a few years ago. I was, my wife and I weren't, weren't aligned for a little bit as far as and I use that word aligned because we just weren't super connected, uh, like we want to, and everything ebbs and flows and there's rhythms. But I started pondering it and my wife was the middle child of three to an alcoholic father who got divorced, had an affair, all that stuff. I had a great parents stayed together. I was the, the son of. I had a great parents stayed together. I was the son of the baby of two, but I was, like you know, my wife learned how to love completely different than I did, completely different than I did. And so I have to remember that when some of the my love languages which I also think is great for every, every person to know their love languages and their partner's love languages and then revisit these, whether it be once a year or once whenever, because it's so important how do I feel loved is going to be different than my wife, based on the story of how they learned how to love. And that is huge, because now we can start to lead with compassion, we can start to lead, lead with empathy. And you know, the truth is is like when you're setting a boundary, it's saying, okay, when this happens, I'm going to do this. It's not telling people, hey, you can't do that. It's actually saying, look, guys, when y'all do this, this is going to be my response because you're stepping over a boundary. When y'all do this, this is going to be my response because you're stepping over a boundary. And so in that, this circles all the way back to if this is what my wife needs to feel secure and to grow, because I want to support her individuality and her uniqueness then this is what she needs and I have to back up.

Jonathan: 44:27

And I will say one other thing, since we're talking about relationships, and I talk to a lot of men about relationships and I said you know what, guys? The number one rule I would say first, before we even get started, do you know your woman's cycle? And 99% are like huh, I'm like come on, guys, guys, like, let's be a little bit more in tune, because you can start to see when it's the chemistry. It's not the character of your partner and I say that compassionately because I'm a male and I understand these things but it's it's. So I can be like you know what I can tell. I have probably two days a month with my wife where things I can just tell she's in a different hormonal state and that is 1000% natural. But I know those things. And I say this to guys cause I'm like don't ask your spouse if they're on their period. Do not do that you need to know without asking.

Tracy: 45:29

Thank you for sharing that.

Jonathan: 45:31

Yes, and I felt like it was important, you know, because it's like uh-uh.

Jonathan: 45:36

Especially in a heated argument and the worst thing you can do you put up your guard because you're going to get smacked. But I know about two days a month I can literally time it out. Okay, we're about five, six days out from period, et cetera. Let me just start to really kind of back off and when she is frustrated with me, while it might not make it enjoyable to hear what's happening, I can lead with compassion and understand the situation more because it's the chemistry, it is not the character right there, and that is so huge because most guys are just like oh, come on, guys, be in touch with them and you know true intimacy, I like to say the playoff words into me, you see, I like to say the playoff words into me, you see. So that vulnerability circling back to those questions about vulnerability is so massive to really feel intimate with somebody you know, and that is my wife, and I's intimacy is like she is my best friend because she knows me inside and out, because she knows me inside and out, and so I don't. I understand how men might not get that, but I don't in the same way, because that is the person your partner is going to be, the person that's going to challenge your growth more than anybody else, and so you pick them for a reason and they are going to help you grow if you choose that, if you choose to look at it that way. And so oftentimes you're like you know.

Jonathan: 47:14

Again I'm speaking with men here and they're like you know, my wife changed. You know, back in college we were so intimate all the time and you know, we used to go out and have fun, and now she's changed, and then I'll, and now she's changed, and then I'll cause I'll do marriage counseling as well. Aren't people supposed to change? Right, because we want to grow. And then the, the, the wife I've had this a couple of times where, like he hasn't changed, he still wants to just go out and party Like it's college. I'm like, right, there's a disconnect there. Guys, do we understand that we're actually growing as individuals and that we're not in our twenties anymore and that's like there's a different?

Jonathan: 47:56

You want to reach a new base camp of intimacy, going back to that mountain metaphor, and that comes with really a deep connection. And you know, I also believe and I know women are so much more intuitive than men. So your wife, your partner, is going to know when things are off before you will, and so I think to listen to your wife's intuition is very empowering for a male. But this all comes back to softening. This all comes back to softening. Take away that story of being a rigid, hard male and start to be like what is a truly empowered, embodied man that loves himself and loves his children and loves his wife, that they'll do anything for them. Sometimes that's just to shut up, step back and hold space, and women want to feel safe. So if that means just to let her vent and for me to take care of my business and like the things I need to, but when I come through that door, everything else stays outside the house and I'm present with them and I get it. That's a challenge. We all have a lot going on.

Mary: 49:09

Yeah.

Jonathan: 49:10

But yeah.

Eryn: 49:12

Usually at the end of our podcast, each time we ask our guest to create a goal for our listeners and we call it how to make tea. Based on our conversation today, what would you like our listeners to work on between now and our next podcast?

Jonathan: 49:31

Love it, love it. Go to the mirror and I want everybody to at least once a day to connect deeply in their own eyes and tell them that they love themselves. And it's so powerful and when you can get to the point where you can say it 10 times like real quick, I love you, I love you, I love you. I guarantee you, 100% guarantee you, by the time fifth or sixth of saying I love you, you're gonna see a smile in that mirror. And that is really what self-love comes from is loving yourself unconditionally.

Kerri: 50:08

Perfect. I love that. So that's how we spilled the tea this week.

Jonathan: 50:11

I love it.

Kerri: 50:13

Thanks for joining us, jonathan. I wanted to share with you. I was I almost said this at some point in our conversation when you were talking about that looking into your own eyes. So I was an art major in college and was thinking about you were saying that you know you'd never really done that. I went through like a year where I just tried to do self portraits and I found that really cathartic because like you're looking at yourself, like oh my gosh, my forehead is this big and my eyes are, you know, like you have to like really look at yourself and I would just put a mirror up in my sketch pad. And I've often told some friends who are similarly artsy when they're feeling lost, I tell them why don't you try like a self-portrait project? Just try it for a month. Whenever you're feeling lost or whatever, sit down with your pad of paper and do a self-portrait.

Kerri: 51:17

I love that. Yeah, I wanted to share that with you in case you know someone who it might work for. No, I love that.

Jonathan: 51:25

So I got a bachelor's of fine arts in photography and I remember doing a lot of those self-portrait in art school and it was cathartic and it's interesting when you really start, you know, looking at yourself more. And it's so interesting because I can even remember as a little kid, you know, when I was that kid that was getting bullied. I can remember very specifically one time looking in the mirror and being like is this me, like this, this is me? Because my voice, like it was just very you know, and I can remember that. And I can remember my daughter, who's 12 now. She was about five and we were getting into the. She was just in the bathroom or in the bathtub talking, chattering, and I started something about spirituality or she was like I know, dad, like I looked in the mirror the other day and I was like is this me, is this really?

Jonathan: 52:20

what I look like, and it like warmed my heart because it's, you know, going back the the self-love in our bodies. And, you know, the only difference in a flower and a weed is literally a judgment yeah these are flowers, these are weeds.

Jonathan: 52:40

So how often are we just judging our bodies and ourselves negatively and know your superpowers are authenticity and you know our heart gives out an electromagnetic field. That is science. It gives out in three meter radius all around, so basically nine meters across. That's what people can feel, right, we can feel if somebody's behind us or we can feel if somebody's staring at us. But your heart developed first in utero, before the brain, when you're in your mother's womb, and so if we can get out of here and drop down into here, I really do believe everything starts unfolding for us naturally, because we are of nature. It's when we're up here and disconnected with this and so many men are living up here, and you know men typically on a general basis.

Kerri: 53:33

A lot of women too, actually A hundred percent, A hundred percent.

Jonathan: 53:38

And you know, in a battle of logic and emotion, emotion always wins. And so let's get to the root of our emotions. And what are those emotional needs not being met? And how can I fill those needs for myself? You know and really live into that, and I do believe things will start unfolding. I tell my kids there's so much wisdom in children's songs Because if we row, row, row, gently down the stream, life is a dream. But as soon as we turn around and try to go upstream, against the flow of nature, you're going to get exhausted and burned out.

Kerri: 54:14

Or keep looking back.

Jonathan: 54:17

Right, and there's a reason the rear view mirror is a lot smaller than the windshield. That's right. So yeah, I can throw out these cliches all day long.

Kerri: 54:26

Well, I can see why Tracy wanted us to talk with you. It's been a joy, thank, you so much.

Jonathan: 54:32

Well, I will send this recording to tracy and hopefully she can stitch together. And you know more than happy to come and speak with you, ladies, at any time great, we appreciate you so much awesome. Thank you all so much all right, goodbye.